Comments on LdC: A Prop 8 Roundtable with Sonja Eddings Brown, Marv...

Hi Reuven:

I was talking with a Mormon volu...

2008-11-07T12:09:00.000+08:00

Hi Reuven:

I was talking with a Mormon volunteer on election night, just before we set out to our respective polling places to start calling back our identified voters who hadn't been crossed off the list (hint- we won the election because we did boring, everyday things like make 3 million phone calls the last seventy two hours before the election, and deployed many many thousands of volunteers to check and make sure our people voted)....but he and I were laughing because I used to debate Mormons all the time, both online and at formal Catholic-Mormon debates, and he recognized me.

I said to him:

" I only hope and pray that the day comes when we can get back to arguing theology again."

He laughed and said:

"It won't happen in our lifetimes".

Catholic-Mormon ecumenism.

I guess we can thank you guys for that :-)

Now why don't the Catholics go back to thinking of...

2008-11-07T11:42:00.000+08:00

Now why don't the Catholics go back to thinking of the Mormons as "non-Christian" as they did before? Maybe the Mormon's plan to convert them all is working!

Sheesh, you're still spouting the script? Electio...

2008-11-07T11:04:00.000+08:00

Sheesh, you're still spouting the script? Election's over, Rick. It's OK to just, you know, express your own opinion rather than parroting a party line.

Yawn.

The Catholic Church and the Mormons cooperate on i...

2008-11-07T10:34:00.000+08:00

The Catholic Church and the Mormons cooperate on issues on which they agree, just like any other coalition, Chino.

The ugly religious bigotry of the last No on 8 campaign commercial was certainly instrumental in your defeat.

Nothing Pyrrhic about a victory which, had it not been achieved, would have resulted in the overturning of the expressed will of the people of california by four activist judges.

The victory we achieved was hard-fought, against a better-funded foe which enjoyed all the support of the political elites of California.

The fact that we won this on Obama's night, in the most liberal state in the union, and despite having to deal with Governor Moonbeam's electioneering, speaks volumes about our victory.

It is a shame to see the No on 8 movement rapidly degenerating into the very picture of religious intolerance and hatred.

A truly Pyrrhic victory, Chino, would be one achieved over and against the votes of our fellow citizens.

I have the greatest respect for your challenge for 2010.

That is the proper response of the gay marriage crowd- do what we did. Get your initiative on the ballot and win, if you can.

We did.

Rick,

When I suggest that yours is a Pyrrh...

2008-11-07T10:14:00.000+08:00

Rick,

When I suggest that yours is a Pyrrhic victory, that implies nothing about the fairness of the process. Perhaps you're unclear on the meaning of the word. In any case, this Reuters article captures something of what I meant by "Pyhrric" ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSTRE4A599C20081106

By the way, did you read the PDF I posted here? How do Catholics feel about letting Mormons use your church to achieve their political objectives?

Keep imagining things, Rick.

Am I to understand, Chino, that a free and fair el...

2008-11-07T09:37:00.000+08:00

Am I to understand, Chino, that a free and fair election, during which both sides were completely free to make their respective cases, and which was ultimately put to the democratic decision of the people of California, is something which qualifies in your view as a "Pyhrric victory"?

This is getting fascinating.

So, then, the "tolerant, non-judgmental, loving, and democratic" No on 8 campaign believes in free elections, just as long as we all vote the way you approve?

You guys need to stand down here, unless you really think you can win this thing by going Bolshevik, a course of action I solemnly advise you to decline to embrace.

Hint: I imagine you are losing about 3 points a day with this.

Wounds? Dude, look up Pyrrhic victory in that dic...

2008-11-07T03:58:00.000+08:00

Wounds? Dude, look up Pyrrhic victory in that dictionary of yours.

I'll swing by your place to extend the hand of friendship right after we win decisively in 2010.

Oh, I feel no shame whatsoever in either defeating...

2008-11-07T03:26:00.000+08:00

Oh, I feel no shame whatsoever in either defeating your attempt to redefine a basic institution of the human species, nor do I feel the slightest bit of shame in extending the hand of friendship to you.

Anyway, I am certain the wounds will heal, with time, and until then I will retire back to the Cal Catholic blog.

Your friend,

Rick DeLano

Hi Rick,

Congratulations on denying marriag...

2008-11-06T12:08:00.000+08:00

Hi Rick,

Congratulations on denying marriage to so many decent people seeking to marry.

I guess your idea of reaching across the divide is to spend millions of dollars to paint my friends as threats to our children.

Spare me your rectitude.

Shame.

Hi Chino!

Well, I was a little optimistic a...

2008-11-06T10:40:00.000+08:00

Hi Chino!

Well, I was a little optimistic as to the margin- congratulations on a hard fought and tough campaign.

Here's hoping we can find ways to reach across the divide and certainly address legitimate civil rights issues now that California has definitively spoken as to the definition of marriage.

Your friend,

Rick DeLano

Heh-heh. Thanks, Chino. I'm sure the CalMo hoards ...

2008-11-06T03:43:00.000+08:00

Heh-heh. Thanks, Chino. I'm sure the CalMo hoards are busy thanking their god for listening to their prayers and pocketbooks at the moment.

Ding ding ding.

We have a winner!

"W...

2008-11-05T02:48:00.000+08:00

Ding ding ding.

We have a winner!

"Ward" it is.

At least until the next California Mormon comes along and corrects me.

And when that happens, I'll probably be forced to admit that Sonja and Marvin aren't even in the same "stake" ...

Answer: Ward?

Now that would be awesome.
2008-11-05T01:41:00.000+08:00
Answer: Ward?

Now that would be awesome.

So you have white women and black men, both proven second-class citizens of the Mormon church, campaigning against equal rights for gay Americans.

Strange.